Talking With Trina Robbins

By Park Cooper

Park Cooper: How has feedback on the first issue of GoGirl! been?

Trina Robbins: So far, so good. It hasn't been out long enough for us to have hardcopy reviews yet, but the response on email and the web has been mostly positive. Kinda confirms what I've always believed, despite the negative attitudes of the mainstream -- that there IS room for a good girl's (as opposed to "Good Girls"!) comic out there -- and more than one!

PC: Tell me about Image's role in helping bring GoGirl! to its audience(s).

TR: Image, and Jim Valentino, and Larry Marder before him, have been extremely positive and helpful. People are amazed when they hear that GoGirl! is published by Image, because of their earlier reputation, but this is really a new and inclusive Image.

PC: Is it correct that GoGirl! is to be a regular series, as opposed to a limited series?

TR: If she survives! GoGirl! will go on as long as she can, in the face of retailers who don't want to carry her. I got a letter recently from a very nice (and persistent) guy, who looked unsuccessfully for GoGirl! in four (!) stores, before just ordering her through the mail.

PC: Clearly, GoGirl's ability to fly is inherited, but will we find out how her mother gained the ability to fly?

TR: It's genetic! Janet, GoGirl!'s mom, was born with the ability!

PC: Will there be other heroes and/or villains in the world of GoGirl!?

TR: Definitely, and you'll meet them soon. Stick around.

PC: Are you working on any projects right now besides GoGirl!?

TR: I'm writing tons of books, two of which will be out in '01. I'm working on a revised version of my out-of-print Century Of Women Cartoonists, for Watson Guptill, to be out in '02. And I'm writing a graphic novel about Harriet Tubman and the Underground Railroad for Scholastic, and submitting Powerpuff Girls concepts to DC.

PC: That Harriet Tubman project is very interesting to me... how'd you get that project? I presume you came up with it yourself and pitched it to Scholastic, or did someone approach you instead...?

TR: No, I've done work for Scholastic before -- written "Classic Comics", adaptations of Jane Eyre and David Copperfield intended for kids who are reading below their level. I guess the idea is that if they like the comic, they may read the book. Terry West, who has also worked with them, very kindly recommended me.

PC: Tell me about the family of villains (to use a term of art) that we met in the first issue of GoGirl! At first, I felt there was very much a C.C.Beck influence there, but looking back, I wonder if there wasn't something Eisner / Spirit about them, particularly Baby... am I wrong? Was either influence in mind when creating them?

TR: You hit the nail on the head when you said Eisner, but there could easily be a little subconscious Beck in there too. But none of it was conscious; it's just that Will Eisner is such a great storyteller and he is a big influence on me, since I grew up on The Spirit.

PC: One thing I've heard about GoGirl! is that it "seems retro", by which is meant that it seems to wish to evoke comics' Silver Age (an act which is extremely popular right now)... How do you feel about this reaction?

TR: Any positive reaction is good. The fact is, however, that I had no intention of being "retro" (except of course that Lindsay's mom is an ex-superheroine from the 70s), I just wanted to tell a good, clear, easy-to-follow story, as differing from the unclear, convoluted storylines in so many of today's comics. Maybe my problem is that *I'm* retro!

PC: How did GoGirl's costume come to be designed? Will she stay with the costume patterned after her mother's, keeping the miniskirt?

TR: Of course she'll keep the costume! Originally I came up with a version of it that I sent to Anne, the artist. She tightened it up and gave it some changes, like the neckline.

PC: Did you really design Vampirella's costume? How did that happen? I seem to recall that you described it over the phone to an artist. Did it come out as you'd imagined?

TR: It's true -- I described it over the phone to Frank Frazetta, who to this day, I've actually never met. His original cover art of Vampirella looked a lot like my idea, but her costume shrunk more with each issue and by now it doesn't bear any resemblence to what I designed.

PC: By your own admission, you're extremely interested in the fate of girls' comics. I'd say in fact that you're one of the foremost spokespersons for girls' comics. How do you feel, by contrast, about the future of women's comics (which does not include younger readers)?

TR: There are more comics out there for women in their teens and over 18, and that's good, but they're mostly either self-published or published by very small presses, and are in black and white, and many comic stores just don't carry them, so that's bad. Remember those 4 stores that didn't have GoGirl!? Same problem!

PC: What qualities should a gender-friendly comic possess?

TR: It can start by toning down the bra size and lengthening the outfit of the female characters. Really, what makes these guy think that the minute a woman gains super powers, she suddenly wants to dress like a slut? If we're not insulted the minute we pick up the book, we might wanna read the comic.

PC: How do you feel about Friends of Lulu?

TR: We've long needed a group like Friends of Lulu, so I'm glad we have one now. Have comics immediately been changed since Friends of Lulu started, and are the mainstream publishers suddenly open to girl-friendly comics? Nope, but Rome wasn't built in a day, either. I think the continuing presence of Lulu is important in so many ways; to keep in front of the comics public the fact that there ARE women in comics, and for those women, to let them know that they're not alone, to give them a voice.

PC: How do you feel about Sequential Tart?

TR: See what I just said about Lulu. Sequential Tart does for women electronically what I hope Lulu does in the real world. Plus, I love their name! I think all those Sequential tart journalists are totally cool, and I read their articles regularly.

PC: What comics do you read right now?

TR: Gee. I'm not reading tons of comics right now because I've been working on non-comic related projects, but I'll be starting up again when I begin work on my Watson Guptill book. I love Roberta Gregory, Donna Barr, Dame Darcy, anything by the Hernandez Bros, Strangers in Paradise, Action Girl, Alison Bechdel, Diane DiMassa, Leeanne Franson, Eternal Romance by Janet Hetherington and Dan Parent's Love-O-Rama (both great romance comics parodies), and I'm sure there's stuff I can;t think of now -- oh yeah, Alan Moore's Promethea!

PC: On a few of the comics you read: I know of Dame Darcy from Meatcake, which brings to mind a story that annoys me every time I think about it. I encountered Meatcake because a college newstand in Kent (Ohio) ordered issue 9, as I recall... They'd never ordered it before, never ordered it since. I realized when I bought it that the reason was it had an Alan Moore story in it. Now, should I be annoyed that a celebrity made the orderers reach out to it for 5 seconds, or should I be happy that Alan helped Dame Darcy to reach new audiences that would / will, it is to be hoped, follow her in the future? And if the latter... why am I so damn annoyed?

TR: You have every right to be annoyed (but not at Alan Moore!) The only issue of Meatcake the store carried was the one with Alan Moore, and after that they didn't order any more copies. The idiot in charge of ordering obviously considered anything by Allan Moore important, but not Dame Darcy. Of course, it didn't occur to them, or they didn't care. that if Alan Moore liked Meatcake enough to write something for it, maybe it's worth carrying. Plus of course, even if Alan Moore *did* help Dame Darcy reach a new audience with #9, where the hell are they gonna find any more issues if the store doesn't carry them?

PC: What's Diane DiMassa doing in comics lately? Is Hothead [Paisan] still having adventures? Or do you just love 'er so much that she sprang into your list anyway?

TR: I love her so much that she sprang into my list anyway! Actually, I haven't seen any new Hothead for a while, but that doesn't mean there hasn't been any. See the above, about the 4 stores that didn't have GoGirl! or your store that didn't carry Meatcake, for reasons why I may not have seen any new Hothead.

PC: Tell me more about your reaction to Promethea; I imagine your standpoint is uniquely qualified to discuss it from a certain viewpoint...

TR: Well, I loved the mythic origin, to start with, and all of Alan Moore's wonderful allusions to stuff the average comics reader is clueless about, like early women cartoonists and illustrators. The comic has tons of women characters in it, even if a good many of them are Promethea. It seems to me that this is what Wonder Woman could (and should!) be, except that the guys who write her don't know zip about mythology, and don't understand the importance of putting lots of strong female characters into a superheroine comic. (But the original, Golden Age Wonder Woman, had so many strong female characters that sometimes you could turn page after page without ever seeing a male character!)

PC: Which of your books on feminine comic book / strip history has been met with the most interest by readers? I think I've read all of them; I must say that I think that one of them was responsible for getting me to seek out and try Hothead Paisan, for which I have a deep affection...

TR: I'm glad to have turned you on to Hothead Paisan. I think From Girls To Grrls has done best so far -- it's gotten me two awards. Chronicle books did such a great designing job on it, and it was so wonderful to have full color!

PC: Did Califia: Queen of California ever come out? I was interested in that.

TR: Yes, but since it was published in Mexico (it's bilingual -- Spanish and English), it's just about impossible to find here so unless you run into me at a con, selling it at my table, you have to order it from me through the mail.

PC: Ah-- I should ask you what cons you'll be attending this year, then...

TR: I'll be at APE if it's in San Francisco again next year, and Wondercon in the Spring, and of course San Diego next Summer. (Actually, all those cons are *next* year -- I won;t be at any more this year!)

PC: How do you feel about the current role of the direct market/comic book shops?

TR: Need you ask? After the story about the guy who emailed me that he tried unsuccessfully to find GoGirl! in 4 stores before ordering it through the mail? The direct market kills all comics that are not boy-oriented superhero comics!

PC: Any thoughts on how to save comics?

TR: Heh. Is the pope Polish? You GOTTA open up the field to other than young men, you guys! You're either ignoring or insulting 52% of the potential comics market, not to mention the fact that there's almost nothing out there for very young children, and if they don't start reading comics while they're young, they won't read them when they grow up. And all you retailers out there: you GOTTA carry comics for EVERYONE, not just the adolescent boys who come into your store, because if you don't, we'll just find other markets.

PC: Let's discuss all that for a moment. First, whom, if not retailers, are you talking to when you say "you guys"?

TR: I guess I mean all the other guys in power -- publishers, editors, writers even.

PC: Second, I can't help but feel that we need comics for women as much as we do for younger readers... if we have and KEEP a stronger grown-up female audience in comics now, won't that help insure a stronger audience for the generations to come? Why should fathers be the only ones to want their children to be interested in comics? I agree entirely that a wider selection of titles for the young is very important, but isn't the comics industry horribly in danger of turning away what few female readers are still around? If we make younger female readers interested in comics, what are they going to read when they get older? I've always thought it interesting that FoL is named after Little Lulu...

TR: Of course we need comics for both young and grown women! I'm sorry if you misinterpreted what I said. Try this quote again: "you GOTTA carry comics for EVERYONE..."

PC: Third: speaking of 'other markets'... I was discussing with my wife yesterday the Harry Potter phenomenon (we're both reading them currently... they actually are as good as kids insist)...

TR: Aren't they great? I've read them all and I'm simply frustrated because there are no more, and I'll have to wait to find out what happens next!

PC: Anyway, we discussed how it's so much cooler to be an author of kid's books right now and so comparatively uncool to be an author of comic books for any audience... why is this?

TR: Because today's comics are so bad, that's why! They're not only violent and sexist, they're stupid, being created by people who are almost illiterates! One reason why the Harry Potter books are so good is they're not dumbed down - J.K. Rowlings expects her readers to be smart enough to understand her books, and -- guess what? -- they are.

PC: One can't help but notice that so many comics for younger readers feel like they really want to be kid's books with good pictures... On a different note, one must observe how Akiko recently came out in children's book form, narrated mostly with prose, not as a new story, but as a prose interpretation of the initial stories... how do you feel about this?

TR: I have no problem with this, should I? There's room on the shelves for books *and* comics, and books that are really comics, and comics that are really books.

PC: Then there's Jill Thompson, who is some kind of damn genius to alternate Scary Godmother back and forth between the two mediums... Comments?

TR: Jill is brilliant. What more can I say?