Artists Only: Tom Lyle

By Jason Brice

Tom Lyle has to just about the friendliest comics creator SBC has had the privilege of working with. Tom took time out from madly pencilling Mutant X for Marvel on two separate occasions to talk with me about his current and past work, his passion for film-making and various other subjects closer to home. To see full sized versions of the Mutant X pencils presented at the bottom of this interview click the images presented.

Jason Brice: Tell me about your very early work with Chuck Dixon at Eclipse...

Tom Lyle: Well, that's a wide open question. Hmmm. I met Chuck at a convention in Philly and AIRBOY had just started. We clicked and I started doing the backups in AIRBOY (SKY WOLF). Those were fun, but very hard. He had to go through Truman and then Cat Yronwode to get me on the book, but all were okay except for Cat and her comment that I was "too Marvel-looking." Level, sane minds prevailed.

JB: And what was the toughest part of Sky Wolf?

TL: It was based in the 50's. Getting the period stuff right was tough.

JB: So, what came next for you?

TL: From there, Tim and Chuck formed FOUR WINDS and we created STRIKE! together. Chuck based it in Baltimore, MD because I was living there at the time. Worked out kind of cool. I enjoyed that book ... if it had lasted, I was to start writing and drawing with issue 13, but alas issue 7 was the last, it became the STRIKE/SGT. STRIKE SPECIAL.

JB: I've seen Strike! described as particularly violent... now, I haven't been able to pick up the book myself, but would you agree with that description?

TL: Not gratuitously, no. No blood - at least not graphic. It was a street-level book. Interesting, since Chuck and I are both suburbanites. Chuck lived near Philly though and has a good eye and ear for that stuff.

JB: What went into creating the back-story and the "old" issues for Strike? That was a clever idea in my opinion.

TL: Well, the back-story was mostly Chuck's idea and he owns all the alleged 40's villains he created as those were written and drawn without me. It was intended to add validity as a tie-in to AIRBOY and also as a great gag to reveal down the line. I was never totally sold on it, but it was kind of humorous. The stories were a hoot. I designed Sgt. Strike and the new Strike, so I did have some hand in the older stuff. Made the Sgt. look old-fashioned. Nobody else could figure out how to draw STRIKE's helmet right. Jeez. Once STRIKE! was to go on "hiatus", a euphemism for CANCELLED, I went hunting for work and got STARMAN.

JB: For me, the first work of yours was that Starman series, and I went "Wow! Where did this guy come from?" It was kind of like an overnight success 3 years in the making, right?

TL: Yep.

JB: So you look at in the same way?

TL: I sort of cringe at the first issues of STARMAN, but I'm EXTREMELY proud of the progress I made from issue 1 to issue 25. I'm much better by then.

JB: Can you tell me something about the process of landing up with Starman?

TL: I contacted Roger Stern about the [Power of the] ATOM and sort of slid into STARMAN instead. I was just schmoozing, but it worked. Bob Greenberger had the final say, though. He was my savior and my intro to life at DC. He was also my editor on STARMAN for the first 14 issues. DC had never really shown much interest in me until then and the day I was talking to Bob, he just up and said, "You should be doing a book for us." Kinda cool.

JB: Atom would've been a good project for you too! I liked all of that Stern stuff in that era. Would you like to work with Stern again?

TL: I would have loved the ATOM, but Carlin didn't like my stuff. I had talked to Roger recently about it, but with the MUTANT X gig now, that makes it unlikely for now. After ROBIN, by the way, Carlin told me he was surprised and ready to admit that he had been wrong about me. he didn't think I had the stuff to get better.

JB: That was good of the Great Carlini!

JB: I want to get back to your work with Chuck Dixon.

TL: Okay. Anything in particular?

JB: From Starman you went onto other projects at DC, including Robin, working with Chuck again. Was that a reunion of sorts?

TL: Yep. Robin came after I had committed to the COMET. I needed some work in the gap between STARMAN and the COMET and went to the Bat office. I thought I could get a Batman fill-in issue or so out of them and they offered me ROBIN. They did it in a roundabout way, they wouldn't tell me what character the mini-series would be about until I said yes to them. They asked if I knew any writers who knew a lot about martial arts and I suggested Chuck to them. They jumped at that. So, we were working together again. We went to a meeting with Denny O'Neil and the whole thing just fell together VERY easily.

JB: Interesting... they wouldn't tell you the character until you signed?

TL: No, I fished and eliminated a bunch of them (like Alfred) and figured it out. But, they were VERY cagey about it all.

JB: That is an interesting tidbit. So, on board with Chuck you set about building the first mini-series... how much involvement from the Bat-office was there?

TL: They had the loose framework of the thing there, but Chuck made it sing and created the Dragons and all that. Neal Adams designed the costume, incidentally. We created KINGSNAKE on the train back from the city.

JB: Oh, that is excellent costume, actually... too bad you can't take the credit for it!

TL: Yep. I do like it, though. Much better than the other designs which they got.

JB: Were you taken aback at the popularity of the series?

TL: Actually, Chuck and I had a lot of faith in it, but it caught DC off guard or they would have offered it to some BIG names. I think what made it work is that neither of us thought of Tim as a sidekick, nor did the stories treat him that way. DC certainly was happy with the sales, though.

JB: Yeah, that was a key factor, the non-sidekick status. DC has gone that path with a lot of their teen characters.

TL: We paved the pathway, then. At least part of it.

JB: I guess it just seemed the natural way to deal with Tim Drake?

TL: Yeah. The other thing that I forgot to say that I used to about it all is that we both treated Tim with respect. That made a BIG difference as well. Nothing campy or goofy or too serious. Very real.

JB: The Comet for !mpact was another teen hero for yours, different in tone, well, at least initially. That series had quite an interesting shift in tone in it's short run... what hand did you take in that?

TL: Well, anything up to issue 6 I'll take credit for, except the WONDER YEARS type narration and tone, after that, they left my plot ideas behind. I was doing a take on my family and working out my demons and Waid left that all in the dust when he took over.

JB: So, you didn't want to go down the path of alien experimentation?

TL: Yes, I did, but it was all very different. In my idea, the family had been abducted and experimented with, but they went further and weirder with it all. It was just a means to an end that was actually kind of forced on me. I really wanted to do the SHIELD, I love Captain America, and thought that the Comet was too close to STARMAN, but they convinced me by letting me plot the book. I was hoping to get to script it eventually. I reached a point where I had to choose between it and Robin, and Robin won, obviously. I tried doing both and I think that both suffered a bit from it.

JB: There were some really excellent artists and writers on the !mpact books... why do you think the line went down so quickly?

TL: A variety of reasons. Most political and some personal. They did not stick to their guns of making those books accessible to kids and all sorts of other things. It was doomed before it was launched. I actually sent a long letter outlining my gripes to Dick Giordano and Mike Gold and was told that I had signed the contract - do the book. Very odd. My book and the Fly were my faves.

JB: Was this the sort of thing that led you to leave DC?

TL: No. But I guess it laid the ground work. I was to become a pain to them because I stand up for myself. The reason I left, and it was supposed to only be for the three MAXIMUM CARNAGE ISSUES of Spider-Man, was very personal. They did some stuff that I did not like and accused me of goofing off when I was taking care of my wife after MAJOR surgery. I had told them about the surgery and warned them that I was going to be late with the third mini. I even offered to let them replace me from issue 4 on and they told me no, at least then they did. Later, they got all over my case about being late and I got miffed. I told them I'd quit and the book would be returnable. They backed me into a corner and I fought back. I really like a few people over there, but I feel really screwed by what happened.

JB: Talking about Spidey, one of SBC staff mentioned that he thought your work on it was reminiscent of George Perez... is this a fair comparison? In either case, who are the artists that you particularly admire?

TL: I've had a lot of people compare me to George, which is odd because I never really liked his stuff all that much (he is good and a nice guy, just not my cup of tea). I was influenced by Ditko, Kirby, and Kane of the old school. Starlin (big time) and Windsor-Smith (big time) from the 2nd tier. Then, an odd assortment of little influences like Milton Caniff and stuff like that.

JB: I can see the Ditko in your work, actually... very dynamic...

TL: Thanks. The halo highlight I do around Spidey is from his influence.

JB:There is more of a kinetic feel in Ditko than Kirby in my opinion.

TL: Odd story ... when I did one of the covers to the Spidey Classics, my mom picked it up thinking I had drawn it and told me how bad the artist inside was. I laughed and told her to tread lightly, that he was the co-creator of Spidey and a big influence on me. AND ... that it was drawn for a different time and printing medium.

JB: You have expressed that you really like working with Howard Mackie, but the poor guy gets a lot of flak from fans sometimes... how does that make you feel?

TL: You can never please everyone. You have to take the flak with the compliments. I caught a lot of flak myself on WARLOCK. Howard is as good as whomever he works with. He can't save a bad artist. I love him and JR JR on Spider-man.

JB: JR JR is cool...

TL: One of the best storytellers in the industry -- if not THE best.

JB: You have expressed dissatisfaction with your work with Ostrander on Punisher... where does this stem from?

TL: Part of it was a funk I went into after being squeezed off Spidey. Part of it was not really liking the direction of the stories. Part of it was going through 3 editors in 18 issues. Bernardo was just starting to get it interesting and the plug was pulled. I love my art on the series (at least from issue 7 on), but I was frustrated with the death-knell that the series seemed to have on my career for a while.

JB: Ennis has a fairly brutal take on Punisher... have you seen that by any chance?

TL: Nope. I rarely follow a book or character after I've left it. Spidey is the only one I still follow. It needs to be brutal. That's what that character is all about.

JB: The Punisher was a hard gig to make good for a while there...

TL: Very hard character to make good, especially when the writer is an affirmed ANTI-GUN person. I don't like them, per se, and I don't own one, but I can appreciate that kind of character by tapping into my dark side and that's not what we were doing on that series. I liked the story I did for the 2-part Spidey/Punisher mini, though.

JB: Here is a silly question... on your website there is a caricature of yourself from a number of years ago that looks quite glum. The current photo you have there is much more cheerful... why the difference between the past you and the current you?

TL: I think the caricature is something I did for STARMAN. I am always nasty to myself when I do self-portraits. Hate doing them. Haven't done one in a while, though. Maybe I could be nice to myself nowadays. I'm happier with the small achievements now, instead of being so driven to HAVE to be on the best books and be a #1 artist. I just try to do my best and get what enjoyment I can from my work now. I was unable to enjoy much of the success of my first run on Spidey because of that trait. I'm also striving to get better, still, and not become a dinosaur.

JB: That seems to be an excellent attitude with so many of the big egos in the industry right now...

TL: Big egos will get you nothing down the line. I was debating about changing and beconing an a-hole like many others, but I decided not to.

JB: Hahahaha... being as asshole won't get you far with me!

TL: Being and a-hole won't get me far with myself, either. Or my wife.

JB: I know what that's like... and I've only been married three months!!

TL: Hate to tell you, but I hit 25 years in August. I'm 46. I did advertising art for 11 wasted years. Hating it all the way.

JB: I'm 28, but I have been living with my wife for 8 years... so that was sort of a cheap joke.

TL: Ah, a friend of mine and his 'wife' have never gotten married, but they've been together 20 years. So....

JB: A lot of people do crappy jobs before they get into comics as their proper career.

TL: Yeah. I never gave up and had a wife who encouraged me to follow my dream. She still is with the film stuff I want to do as well. Great woman! Congrats on the marriage, by the way.

JB: Thanks. And congrats on your 25 years! I'll ask about "Bubbas" in a short while... don't you worry! What happened with Warlock? Was it just under appreciated, or was there some mistake you feel you made with it?

TL: I think it was under-advertised and under-printed. I think it could have sold more and I also think it would have done better as a series than the other one did. The mini had the ending gutted a bit, by the changes on the last page of the last issue. I was setting up for more and that got left out for the typical "I'm gonna be a great hero" speech he made. I think I did okay with it, but I also hated that my editor had me shoehorn Blastaar and Annihilus into it.

JB: Hrmmm... so, you put Warlock down to editorial interference. Has there been a time when you think a change made or suggested by an editor has been absolutely brilliant?

TL: I think that some of the stuff that Macchio asked for on the three issues of Spidey I wrote and drew (that are sitting in a drawer up there for some reason) was a good improvement plot-wise. He didn't do much in the way of input after the plotting, but he helped a lot with the plotting. Other than that, I think editors are mostly a pain, but I love Ralf and I love Jason, my current editor on Mutant X.

JB: I was going to ask about that Spidey series, but discussion of wives distracted me... Marvel seems reluctant to be particularly adventurous, even with work they have already paid for. Does this frustrate you much?

TL: They are concerned, I don't know if it's justified or not, that a project with none of the creators on the current books would have a detrimental effect on the regular books. Especially if they used it as a fill-in on the regular books. It is VERY frustrating to me. I have 66 pages of art and story sitting in a drawer.

AGGHHH!!!

Now, this info is second and third hand, but I think it's probably why it hasn't seen the light of day.

JB: What is that Spidey book about?

TL: I was pleased that Ralf commissioned it. The story is Spidey/Namor/Attuma and is over-titled WATERWORLD. Attuma wants to sink Manhattan and have Namor blamed and start a surface war with Atlantis. Namor is supposed to get killed and Attuma steps in to save the day and pick up the pieces for Atlantis. And then he's the KING. But.... Namor and Spidey have something to say about that. I also used to story to explore the feeling of loneliness in some of the main and side characters. Peter misses MJ. A young boy feels beat down and unappreciated. Aunt May feels alone.

JB: That sounds quite cool... underwater stuff with Spidey would be a challenge.

TL: Well, actually, all takes place in mid-town Manhatttan over the course of one night.

JB: Oh... so Namor and Attuma are the ones out of place?

TL: Yep. I used Ben Urich and Jonah as well. I love them both. You'll see it all some day.

JB: Now, we've talked about Skywolf, Strike!, Starman, Robin, Spider-man, Warlock and Punisher, we better talk about Mutant X, right?

TL: Yeah, that would be cool.

JB: So, what lead you to do the fill-in work?

TL: Last November, I went into the offices and took samples around, I hate doing that, but in this market, you have to. Jason and I never really got to talk as he was busy, but I left him samples. Really, the call for the 3 pages in issue 20 came out of the blue. Then, two months later, he called for more on 21. Then,
he offered me 23 and 24 as tryouts of sorts. But, with problems on 22 on the horizon, they threw 5 pages of that at me first. 5 pages grew to 13. Then, they just committed to me as the regular guy I feel very lucky. That call was very unexpected. I'm glad that Jason called for those first 3 pages, though. I feel very lucky getting Mutant X as I know that I'm good, but I wasn't sure this was my kind of material. Dang, I like the chance to draw all of these folks, though.

JB: How have you managed to get by in times without a regular gig?

TL: As for the 3 years when I had no regular gig, I was under contract with Marvel for 2 of those 3 years, so it wasn't all that bad. Only 9 issues of work a year, but it was well-paid work. When the contract ended ...whoo, boy.

JB: What re-engineered characters are you going to be tackling on Mutant X?

TL: I'm going to have to think about that. I read Howard's over view thorugh issue 30, but I can't say much. The AVENGERS should appear. It's not a definite, yet. The thing is, with me on the book, Howard has had a whole slew of new ideas and has gotten rejuvenated about it, and so everything in the overview might go out the window. It's really cool that he's so excited about having me to work with again as well. I think we'll tell some good stories together.

JB: So he is really hyped up about ht book then? Is there a big difference in the way he approaches the MX scripts as opposed the Spidey ones he did for you?

TL: Well, I work from a plot with him and they're looser than they used to be and I like that. It leaves a lot of room for me to tell the story in my way and I try to give him a story to be excited about. He called me and thanked me for my pages in 22. Very nice to be appreciated. The biggest challenge is doing a team book again. I haven't done one since my early work back in 86. It's tough to keep everyone in the right place and give them their due visually.

JB: I was reading an interview with Dick Sprang, who just passed away, and he thought the Marvel style of plotting was absolutely crazy. You seem to prefer a looser plot for you to work your magic from. Is that right?

TL: I like the Marvel style much better. That might be the only drawback of working with Chuck is that he writes full script. He's a good storyteller, though, so it wasn't bad. Sprang worked in a time when the pay didn't justify the work of figuring out the story. I understand why he would say that. The pay's still not what it should be, but it is high enough to justify the work.

JB: I have read some of Chuck's scripts from Nightwing... they are quite an exciting read on their own...

TL: Chuck is a good writer. Very good.

JB: Yup, I like Chuck too...

TL: WIZARD seems to like him. I gotta ask him what his secret is.

JB: Hahahah... I have done a couple of stories on Chuck, so we like him fine, too!

JB: Tell me something I about Bubbas in the Mist... it sounds truly weird!

TL: Okay, FILM!!!! I had wanted to direct a film and my wife said I should do this idea that I thrown out at her before. We started filming it, by the way, with only the beginning and ending written. Anyway, the story is inspired by living in the Northern USA and being from the South. Up in NY state where I lived they acted like all the rednecks lived in the South. Well, they were wrong, I had one as a next door neighbor. The gist of the story, then, is that an anthropologist is searching for the elusive NORHTERN HIGHLAND BUBBA (the Northern redneck.) I keep the gag of what he's really looking for up until about 1/3 of the way through the film.

JB: Elusive? I wouldn't think that they'd be that hard to find...?

TL: They're not. But the Yankees think they are. My standard response about that is that Southerners are proud of their perversions and do them all in their front yards, whereas the Northerners do all theirs behind closed doors. I'm not a redneck, but I hate being thought of that way just for being from the South. In the film, the Anthropologist becomes one of them in the end.

JB: I should ask about comics and computers... have you ever thought of doing online comics?

TL: I don't think there's a market there. I'd rather explore digital filmmaking on the web. BUBBAS was filmed in 16mm, but edited on video to save money.

JB: The problem from comics on the web is the mechanisms for generating income off them aren't immediately obvious to non-techie types.

TL: I'm getting it reedited now that I have Premiere and I'm gonna get it up on the web soon.

JB: BUBBAS is forty minutes, right? Any chance of a full length feature edit?

TL: Actually, I'm trying to cut it to 30. I've got it down to 34 and a half right now.

JB: Ahh.. 30 minutes is better for short film and possibly TV markets.

TL: I have a screenplay for another short (thriller, this time) already done and I'm working on the script for a feature. I don't think TV is ready for BUBBAS!!!

JB: With MX, what is your basic goal... ten words or less.

TL: Pressure to be concise... can't ... handle ... too much... buckling under .... arrggghhhh! Actually, my goal on MX is too find a groove for myself that kicks me into hyper-drive and maybe gets this book a little better press and sales figures. I like the premise. Let's make it work.

---

Discuss this interview on the Feature Fiends Forum!