Greg Rucka: Batticus Kodiak

By Alan David Doane

Alan David Doane: You are, right now, involved in quite a few projects, probably more than I even know about--

Greg Rucka: (Laughs).

ADD: --but you write a couple of fairly prominent comic book series, you're working on Detective Comics featuring Batman and a series called Whiteout. And you're also a novelist--"real books," as we like to call 'em.

GR: That about sums it up.

ADD: How the heck did you get involved in such a diverse career?

GR: Well, I got into comics because I'd been a fan, I guess that's the way most people get into comics. And the way I'd actually gotten the opportunity to do the work was as a result of the novels. I got into the novels because I have that pathological illness known as "Writing." There's no real cure for it.

ADD: How many novels have you written now, is it four?

GR: There are actually a total of six that I've written. Four have been released from Bantam Books about a character named Atticus Kodiak. And then a fifth came out in January, which was a novel of a year-long Batman storyline that ran during 1999, called Batman: No Man's Land. That's published by Pocket Books. And another comic book company, Dark Horse Comics, is actually going to be bringing out a short novel about a character named Grendel Prime. That'll be released in sometime in early summer.

ADD: And that's based on the Grendel comic book?

GR: Yeah, for those people who might be aware of Matt Wagner's work, the Grendel stuff gets broken down into sort of a contemporary storyline and a far-future storyline. This is a novel that takes place in the far-future storyline.

ADD: That's interesting because it seems that one of the common threads of your work whether it's comics or novels is this sort of crime fiction genre detective stories; is that going to be carried over into this story set in the future?

GR: Abstractly, in a fashion. Matt Wagner, who created the Grendel universe is a huge fan of the pulps, as am I. And a lot of the crime fiction influence that I have, and that manifests in my writing, comes from such sources. So, what we've got is ostensibly a science fiction novel, but it's really a very pulp novel. I mean, we've got people crashing through doors with guns, and there are beautiful women in dangerous situations, and the odd decapitation…basically everything you'd want from a good pulp book.

ADD: Are there any pulp authors that stand out in your mind as having been a particular inspiration?

GR: I could roll off an arm's length list, but when it all comes down to it I always drop back to the traditional group that gets lumped as "The Black Mask Boys." I'm a huge fan of Raymond Chandler, obviously; Dashiell Hammett. Walter Gibson. Those are the names that normally just rattle off.

ADD: How do you balance the writing the comics with writing the novels? Are there different skills you need to drag out for one as opposed to the other?

GR: Yeah. With a novel, there is a luxury of time and space. And I cannot draw at all (laughs), so whenever I'm doing a comic book, that's a very collaborative effort, versus a novel which is pretty much my own baby from front to back. One of the things I love about working in comics is actually…there is an element of an intellectual problem to scripting, which is…for example, if I do a Batman story I'm told I have 22 pages. And in the course of those 22 pages, I want to get from point "A," the start of the story, to the end of the story. And ideally in that time and in that space, tell a story that was not only exciting, but is also emotionally engaging. It's kind of like playing an abstract game of chess in a way. And that's really neat, especially compared with the free form of novels.

ADD: How do you divide up your workday, do you write at home?

GR: I do. Right now I don't divide it up very well because I'm a new father. My wife and I had our first child about a month ago…

ADD: Congratulations.

GR: Thank you very much…

ADD: Enjoy this time when the child is sort of at your mercy, that changes very quickly, Greg (laughs).

GR: I think it's already changed, I feel that I'm at this child's mercy already, as the schedule has suffered. Normally what happens is I work on "the project of the day." When I'm working on a novel I try to clear as much time out of the schedule and then daily write to a fixed word amount, somewhere in the neighborhood of three- to five-thousand words a day. And if that's uninterrupted, I can do that seven days a week, I can get a novel done within a month.

ADD: So that's (true for both) comics or a novel?

GR: Yeah, with comics it's somewhat similar but with comics there isn't really the word count issue. I use a word count for the novels because it's that free-form. What I'll do with a comic book is normally try to get as much done in the course of the day as I can. If the script is going very well I can get one finished in under a day, and if it isn't going well it can take me up to two, three weeks.

ADD: When you're working on a story, be it a comic or a novel, how much of the tale do you know before you sit down to write, how much of it do you already have figured out in your head?

GR: It normally depends on the story. There's certain ones, a good example would be Legends of the Dark Knight #125, a Batman story, I knew far in advance of actually writing that story exactly what was going to happen, almost on every page. And writing it was relatively simple as a result. More often than not I like to go into just about anything I'm writing with an idea of where I'm headed, where I want to end it. And especially with the novels I find that I have to do that or I else I get horribly lost. With the comic books it tends to be a little more open-ended, mostly because of the nature of the form, and the fact that I can say "You know what, this really isn't a one-issue story, I'm gonna make it a two-issue story." And for the most part the people who edit my comic book work are very open to that.

ADD: Let's talk a little bit about Whiteout, can you tell us a little bit about the milieu that's set in?

GR: Yeah, Whiteout is a murder mystery set in Antarctica. And the main character is a United States Deputy Marshal named Carrie Stetko, who is for the most part an unpleasant and antisocial person. And she finds a dead body in the middle of a continent that really shouldn't have anybody on it, and has to determine who killed the body and why. That's it in a nutshell. It's more nuanced than that of course, but--

ADD: Carrie seems to be extremely well thought out, I'm guessing that she's a very real character to you. Was she based on anyone real?

GR: She's not based on anybody I know, but--anyone who follows my work at all will determine very rapidly that I like writing strong female characters. I enjoy that interaction for me. Maybe it's my attempt as a male to understand women (laughs). Carrie isn't really based on anybody I know but like all characters that I write, there are elements of her that come from people I know. There isn't any one person that I can cite.

ADD: How much research did you do when plotting out Whiteout? Not only is the story meticulously plotted, but it's also--you get a real feel of verisimilitude from the story. When you're done reading you really feel like you know what it might be like to spend a few months somewhere you really don't want to be, like Antarctica.

GR: That's vindicating. I did a lot of research, actually, for the initial series. I did a lot of reading, accounts by people who had who'd wintered over at the South Pole at Amundsen-Scott Base, I read a variety of the explorers biographies or their journals, I watched an awful lot of Nova and National Geographic. And I even went so far, I think, I rented an episode of Pole to Pole, where Michael Palin finally reaches Antarctica. I researched a lot because the details of the continent--and the continent is really a character, certainly in the first series, moreso in the follow-up series Whiteout: Melt. I wanted to make sure I got as many details as I could correct. Especially since I hadn't been there, and whenever I'm writing anything like that my greatest fear is that somebody who knows will read it and be like, "Well that's totally wrong."

ADD: As you say, the setting really is a character. In the first (series), the setting, as a character, takes a big bite out of Carrie. Don't want to spoil it for people who haven't read it, but you certainly show the consequences of what even a moment's lack of attention could result in in that setting.

GR: Yeah.

ADD: How big a moment was that for you when you were planning it out? Did you know that was coming going in to it or did it sort of come to you as you were writing along?

GR: That came to me as I was writing. The moment you're talking about happens in the second issue of the four (in the first series). And I knew how the first issue was going to end, and I didn't know how I was going to get her out of the situation that she's in at the end of that first issue. I had this wonderful idea of the situation I wanted to put my protagonist in, and I had no idea how she was going to escape it. And when I sat down to write the second one I realized that it was going to be...it would be awfully convenient if she got out of it without a scratch--and fairly dishonest. I don't think it would have been believable. So then I looked at the options and it sort of became causal. Sort of came out of the story directly at that point.

ADD: And it really plays a big role in the rest of the tale. Is it a pleasant surprise when a detail sort of jumps out like that and ends up sort of becoming a major part of the story?

GR: Absolutely; it's one of the joys of telling any story, following instinct and determining that the instinct was good (laughs), and sort of running with it from that point.

ADD: Are you planning future stories in the Whiteout universe?

GR: I think I'm giving Carrie a rest after this. when we finished the first one the publishers at Oni and the artist I work with, a very talented guy named Steve Leiber, both parties came and said "Let's do another story about Carrie." And at the end of Whiteout I had felt that her personal story had pretty much reached a good resolution. I didn't want to tell another story if I didn't feel that it had to be told. And then the idea for "Melt" appeared, and I was like, "Okay, this is a story that Carrie should tell, and there's a character issue that does need to be resolved here so I can address that." But at this point, I think--she's been through a lot. I think I want to give her some time off. I'm not precluding the opportunity to do one at a later date, but there's nothing planned right now.

ADD: As a reader, it seems to me, I think there's tons more stories that you could tell about her character, so I hope that eventually you get back to that.

GR: I'm keeping an eye open. The current hope with Oni is actually to do a series with another character from Whiteout, with Lily. And to start that at some point later this year.

ADD: She was a spy, right?

GR: Yeah, and I'm a big fan of espionage stories. I guess it goes hand in hand with being a big fan of mystery and crime stories. So I'm hoping to do sort of a spy comic that would be somewhere in between James Bond and John LeCarre. So it would be--oh, this is going to sound pretentious--it would be a "smart" spy series, I suppose.

ADD: I'm glad you said John LeCarre, I was afraid you were going to say Austin Powers.

GR: (Laughs)--no. The first issue that I have in mind, and actually I'm going to start scripting it in the next week, the spy, Lily, has to kill somebody. And the whole issue, she'll do the assassination at the start of the issue, and the rest of the issue is her having to get out of the country. As all of the law enforcement and the military in the country that she's done this in mobilizes to stop the assassin. and I want to intercut that with the political tension that arises as a result of the job. So it will jump between her in-country and back to London where her controllers are having to deal with a lot of very angry people in the government.

ADD: All right, you've got me hooked.

GR: Cool!

ADD: Let's switch gears a little, how'd you get involved in writing Batman?

GR: It's a vaguely nepotistic connection. I came to Oni Press by way of an introduction from a friend who worked at DC. And that friend introduced me to the then-editor in chief of Oni, a guy named Bob Schreck. I did Whiteout, Whiteout came out after my second novel and before my third one, in between Finder and Smoker. I was in New York visiting this friend at DC, and I had been asked if I had any interest in writing Batman and I said yes. So this friend went into Group Editor Denny O'Neil's office--Denny is the Batman Ruler, and brought my first two books with her to pitch me. And apparently got as far as "Denny, I don't know if you've read--" and Denny got out from behind the desk and demanded to know where she had acquired the second book, because he'd read the first one and hadn't been able to find the second and he really liked my writing. That led kind of very easily to a lunch with Denny, and we hit it off, and that opened the door.

ADD: No Man's Land was your entry into the Batman universe of writers--was it intimidating to not only now be writing one of the most famous, iconic characters in the history of mankind--

GR: (Chuckles).

ADD: --But also to be doing it in the middle of a fairly important storyline that sort of determined the future of the character?

GR: Yeah, very much so. And even now I wonder if I did right by Batman and by the fans. It was a very daunting place to be dropped into the middle of, because No Man's Land had been at that point pretty much plotted but none of the scripts had been turned in yet. And I had done a test script for Denny that wasn't a No Man's Land story, and it was very well received. And at that point he turned around and said "Okay, start giving him No Man's Land work." So all of a sudden I was being handed outlines saying "in these issues, the following things have to happen. Do it however you like." Not really knowing enough to make sure that I was getting all my details correct. And I misstepped a couple times over the course of the year, and oh, boy the fans were very quick to point that out.

ADD: Is that a restrictive way to work? It doesn't sound like it would be very conducive to the creative process to have to sort of meet those landmarks, or was it just sort of a small--

GR: Oddly, it was kind of liberating. Where I am right now I get to write pretty much whatever I'd like to for Detective. last year when they gave me an assignment, there was a sense of "we are all moving to a place." So there was an outline from which to work. And since that's how I tend to write my novels, I'll outline my novels in a very detailed fashion before I start them--it was a style of writing that I was familiar with. And once again it goes back to sort of the chess game analogy, which is, "Okay, these things need to be accomplished." It becomes an element of--it's like getting pieces of a recipe and being told "Okay, make the soufflé." The soufflé may be bad or good, but all these ingredients need to go into it.

ADD: You gotta have the eggs; make sure the eggs are in there, Greg.

GR: Yeah. And it's fun. It's a different kind of writing, but it's a lot of fun.

ADD: What's your vision now that you're free of the constrictions of No Man's' land, have you got an overall vision of where you want to take the characters?

GR: I'm not overly concerned with the health of Batman and Bruce Wayne. Those characters, and I do view them as vaguely seperate, are in very good hands. There are plenty of other writers aside from me who work with them and I think Batman right now is in a very good place. There are characters that surround him, and they're the ones that I worry for. For example, Commissioner Gordon, I feel has--he needs care. He has been much abused, I think, in the past several years. He's somebody that I really enjoy writing. And because of my crime bent, one of the things that I've certainly brought to Detective is perhaps--not a very strong sense of mystery to the stories, but they are almost universally crime stories, dealing with aspects of crime, dealing with the police in Gotham City as much as Batman. And that really is another element I'm intrigued by. What it's like to be a police officer in a city where there's this vigilante running around basically doing your job better than you. Where does that put you? And how do you reconcile your job with the fact that if things are going badly somebody's going to go up to the roof and turn on the giant lamp that'll put a bat up in the sky and call for the cavalry.

ADD: And knowing your affection for crime stories, I was pleasantly surprised to find Ra's Al Ghul pop up in this most recent issue of Detective that's out, one of my all-time favourite villains.

GR: Oh, Ra's is great.

ADD: Was it intimidating to be writing this and then handing it for editing to the guy who invented him?

GR: Oh, yeah. (Laughs). Oh yeah. I'm also doing a mini-series about one of the Bat-characters, Huntress. A Huntress/Batman mini-series called Cry For Blood. And in that mini-series I'm using a character named The Question, and Denny wrote the definitive work on The Question, so it's very daunting to write a script and then hand the material to the guy who created these people and be like, "Is that okay?" And the best compliments I've received are when Denny sends me a note or calls me back and says "That's really good. I wouldn't have done it like that, and I should've," or "That's exactly what I would have wanted to see." It feels great.

ADD: Speaking of the Huntress, there seems to be, and I want to be careful how I say this…she was one of my favourite characters back when she was Bruce Wayne's daughter, which was a long, long time ago and there's been a lot of revisionist history since then. In the last few years there seems to be a backlash against her character by a lot of fans. Is it a difficult task to take her on and try to make people enjoy her?

GR: Well, this is probably gonna get me in trouble. I like that character a lot, and as I said earlier I like writing strong female characters. She is very much that. And that is one of the things that has held over from the original incarnation of the Huntress as the daughter of Bruce Wayne and Catwoman. So, when I write her I just want to be fair to her. I want to tell a good story about her and I want--I see a lot of depth to that character, I want that depth to come across. Now if readers respond to that, great. If they don't, we'll know. They won't buy the book and I will be told, "Okay, Greg, do not go near Huntress again." Since DC writes the check they get to say that and I listen.

ADD: Is that just my observation, the reaction to her, or is that something you've seen as well?

GR: No, I think that's a very correct assessment. There are a lot of people that really don't like that character for a number of reasons. There are instances where writers have done things with her, myself included, that have outraged fans. Comics are very interesting in that the fan investment in the story and in the characters is exceptionally strong. And with the addition of the Internet now, feedback now is so ever-present and so ready. Almost everybody who's a comic fan feels they know the characters, and they know what they would do, and they know why they would do them. And they're exceptionally unforgiving if they feel a writer or artist has misinterpreted the character one way or another. They feel very strongly about their interpretations. And it is sometimes an uphill battle to argue that "This is an alternate take on the character but this is just as valid as the take that has been presented before."

ADD: You mentioned the hardcover novel of No Man's Land…how daunting a task was it to compile a year's worth of comics into one single book?

GR: Very. (Laughs). That's the quick answer.

ADD: I noticed and I applaud you for crediting all the writers and artists that were involved in No Man's Land over that one year. Did you just have to go through all those comic books and take notes and put it all together? What was the process there?

GR: Pretty much that. When I started writing the novel, not all the comics had been completed, though the outline was in place and a lot of the material had come in. So, one of the first things I had to do was determine what things I was going to cut. Because there was no way I was going to be able to take 60 issues with all the characters, and storylines and plot points and turn it into a cohesive novel under, say, 2000 pages. And a novel requires different things than a comic maxi-story. There had to be a throughline that was easy to follow, and I wanted to introduce some thematic elements. So I did a lot of cutting. Almost everything that remained or everything that was cut, the choices were very deliberate and I tried to incorporate as much as possible.

ADD: It's very jarring, to go as a reader of novels and a reader of comic books, to combine the two as a reader, I can't imagine what it's like as a writer. But you very quickly assuage those problems. The reader gets very quickly enmeshed into the storyline, and accept that yes, these are comic book characters, I have to kind of switch gears in my brain, and sort of picture this now. My favourite scene so far is when the Joker and Two Face escape from Arkham Asylum--

GR: I love that scene. That's a scene I'll read when I'm doing readings and signings.

ADD: Was that in the original comics?

GR: It wasn't. And this goes right to the point, which is, I wanted to make certain that the novel was going to be accessible for people who never read comic books. And I didn't want to sort of nod and wink to the reader and say "It's just a comic, these are silly characters." I figured that if I took it as seriously as possible, and I tried to present it as factually as possible, to introduce an element of realism to the material, then the reader would respond to that. And comics or not, they would at least enter into the story with an open mind. The sequence that you're talking about was really important because those characters had to be introduced very early on, as they're both very critical to the overall story. And I wanted to get across again, very quickly, what was motivating them, how they work, why the Joker is so dangerous, and also why he's called "The Joker." And Two Face is a personal favourite as far as the villains go, he is my favourite villain.

ADD: You really handled, especially his dialogue, amazingly well. It's very difficult to explain, but they really came to life in a way that they never have in the comics for me, especially the Joker, who I have always had a hard time accepting. Maybe it comes from growing up with Caesar Romero on TV.

GR: Me too, actually, I find him an exceptionally difficult character to work with.

ADD: Thank you! I'm glad it's not just me.

GR: No, it isn't. And I have a theory as to that. With Batman, one can--the conception of Batman is such that one can make mistakes with the character and the reader will forgive it. You can, for example, get say one word out of every ten of dialogue wrong, and the reader will go, "Ehhh, okay." With Joker his conception is, I think, so individual to different people, that it's very hard to say what makes a good Joker portrayal. But they know a bad one the second they see it. I never really understood the character until I was writing the book. And in writing the novel I thought I got a good grip on him. Because, it's all about the joke.

ADD: Yes, and that was also the key theme in one of the most obvious, excellent Joker stories that comes to mind, the Alan Moore--

GR: Yes, The Killing Joke.

ADD: And also, I think, Paul Dini has a pretty good handle on that.

GR: Paul is actually, I think, the guy who writes the definitive Joker today. I actually met with him during the No Man's Land writing before I had to do some Joker stories. And I said "I have no idea how to get in on this character, help me." And it was he who said, "Well, it's always the gag, he's always setting up the next gag. And the audience that he most wants validation from is Batman." He resents like hell that Batman won't laugh.

ADD: That's a terrific, terrific insight into that character. And something that's sorely lacking in probably 80 to 90 percent of the stories about him.

GR: I think so too.